Curse

upier · Feb 24, 2010, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Nibiru

hahah, I hope you don't think mesmers are meant to do damage?!
you fail at this game if you think so, they were never meant to do kill stuff by clicking 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 skills!
They are to trick and play against your opponent!

How does one trick and play against that which is dead?
You know because the assassin jumped in, hit the poor sucker a few times and now he's dead.
The ultimate Blackout!

Seriously, people who run around saying that something shouldn't be doing damage in PvE at this point fail at this game because they simply don't comprehend how insane a player's damage output can be.
The only way that "mesmers shouldn't be doing damage" can be relevant is if we see a MASSIVE nerf to our defence and offence. Otherwise, why bother with anything that goes beyond that if this simple tactic will always win the game?

Trinity Fire Angel · Feb 24, 2010, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by The Josip
That's called argumentum ad hominem. As I said, you can do better. FYI, I'm one of the best mesmer players you will run into in this game, and even if I wasn't it doesn't change the fact that mesmers needed a buff, not necros. My game experience far exceeds that of 95% guru members, both PvP and PvE (except lately I play mostly PvE). But I am not here to compare e-peen. I come with arguments, which obviously are too difficult to refute when you need to constantly resort to "you suck" "cant be done" etc.

Sorry, i think Starcraft is one of the best mesmers in the game. Please provide proof of your god-like mesmer abilities.

I would like to hear Starcraft's opinion on whether mesmers play a significant role in PVE and what skills and aspects of mesmers need to be updated if any.

Lord Nibiru · Feb 24, 2010, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

How does one trick and play against that which is dead?
You know because the assassin jumped in, hit the poor sucker a few times and now he's dead.
The ultimate Blackout!.

excuse me?
you say assassins are problem? haha, if assassin kills mesmer then mesmer deserved to die!

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Seriously, people who run around saying that something shouldn't be doing damage in PvE at this point fail at this game because they simply don't comprehend how insane a player's damage output can be.
The only way that "mesmers shouldn't be doing damage" can be relevant is if we see a MASSIVE nerf to our defence and offence. Otherwise, why bother with anything that goes beyond that if this simple tactic will always win the game?

Tactics always win the game!
And damage is not only thing that matters in this game.
Mesmers are not killing machine, they punish opponent for doing something and trick them.
They are very powerfull, and if you can't see that then don't come to me saying that I don't comprehend something.

You just want killing machine, then, my dear, go play other then mesmer.
Like I said, mesmers needs some update of skills that will help them do better at end-game pve and HM, and make them more funnier for ppl.

For me, mesmers are OP in pvp!
In pve, they need little fix to follow other professions in their progression.

Xenomortis · Feb 24, 2010, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Nibiru

excuse me?
you say assassins are problem? haha, if assassin kills mesmer then mesmer deserved to die!

PvE.
He was referring to the fact that a properly equipped and buffed Assassin will kill a target before a Mesmer can really do anything meaningful to it.
Hence: "Death is the ultimate Blackout".

Lord Nibiru · Feb 24, 2010, 03:45 PM // 15:45

well yes ofcource there are builds that are just /win button.
but it seems ppl wantes mesmer to be that same /win button which they are not meant to be.

@drkn I'm using that name for over a 9 years as my nickname. Is there any problem? I don't care about that theory and about 2012, I like that name, ty.
Same as ppl who like names as Moon or Sirius.

*Darcy* · Feb 24, 2010, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Thank you for trying to involve the community, ArenaNet. As you can see, the thread has devolved into arguments that have nothing to do with the OP. I guess you will have to implement the changes and wait for the screaming to get any meaningful input.

Martin Alvito · Feb 24, 2010, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

i'm not sure why your mentioning r/a's? 1st of all, shattering assault was mentioned as moving to critical strikes and 2nd, r/a's can't run a warrior skill??? still... i think i'd rather see fear me a/w's rather than shattering assault r/a's. not because it'd be less imba (it could possibly be more imba), but because it'd be less lame.

Good point; I meant to say that you're going to see A/W Shattering Assault spam with more damage and attack speed buffs to boot. Put it that way when I posted on the usual private forum, but had a moment of idiocy here. Happens.

drkn · Feb 24, 2010, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

@drkn I'm using that name for over a 9 years as my nickname. Is there any problem? I don't care about that theory and about 2012, I like that name, ty.

it comes from the sumeran mythology. it would feel weird to call you Asgard or Elysium, either.

@Darcy - i have faith that if people from ANet actually read this and similar threads, they might help in game's overall progress. the fact that arguments about other issues dominated this very thread is very suggestive.

zwei2stein · Feb 24, 2010, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Nibiru

Tactics always win the game!
And damage is not only thing that matters in this game.
Mesmers are not killing machine, they punish opponent for doing something and trick them.
They are very powerfull, and if you can't see that then don't come to me saying that I don't comprehend something.

You still do not see the point:

* In order to punish someone for action, you have to let him take that action.

Skills like empathy have major problem: in order to use them effectivelly, you have to use them on off-target, lower priority targets. Becuase party will actually be killing high priority targets quickly. That is not worthwhile, that is wasting party slot.

Noone needs to soften unimportant targets because once important targets are down, it is easy to finish off rest.

* In order to trick someone (id say it is to interrupt/disable, but who knows with your terminology), you have to fire expensive skills on priority target.

This is worthless: party dps is more than enough to bring down any target that would require messing so fast that interrupt is irrelevant.

Noone needs to interrupt important targets because they will be going down immediatelly.

---

Killing monster is ultimate interrupt. Mesmers anti-synergize with party because simple focus-fire with inteligent caller does pretty much eveything you'd want from mesmers as a class (important targets disabled efficiently).

Chthon · Feb 24, 2010, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Not really. The SoS Rit seldom killed anything, all he had to do was stall spawns on one side. Unless they seriously weaken the spirits, then it won't be a problem.

My concern is that an extra 10 sec of recharge is going to end up meaning some extra time spent allowing the monsters to march forward because you can't recast SoS immediately when the previous set of spirits falls. Or do you think the spirits can survive a whole 30 sec?

Arduin · Feb 24, 2010, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Killing monster is ultimate interrupt. Mesmers anti-synergize with party because simple focus-fire with intelligent caller does pretty much everything you'd want from mesmers as a class (important targets disabled efficiently).

Sadly, yes. This is one of the reasons why I am not playing on my BHA Ranger that often anymore. It is fun and all to daze and blind foes, but in the end, why waste energy on disabling foes when you could just as easy kill them? And because we have so much skills/builds that can do godawful damage in small time, not doing godawful damage in small time will always be inferior.

Orry · Feb 25, 2010, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

Sadly, yes. This is one of the reasons why I am not playing on my BHA Ranger that often anymore. It is fun and all to daze and blind foes, but in the end, why waste energy on disabling foes when you could just as easy kill them? And because we have so much skills/builds that can do godawful damage in small time, not doing godawful damage in small time will always be inferior.

I think you see the balance problem.

Hint:It isn't that disruption isn't powerful enough.

Giga_Gaia · Feb 25, 2010, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

You don't need the AP build to roll through hard mode....PM me in game, and I will show you how FD > AP in PvE HM.

IGN: Teresa The Claymore / Punishing Bad boys

Yeah I've played with builds with FD, Fragility, Virulence, and all those nifty Norn shouts. The thing about condition builds is that:

1) it's generally much faster to just kill them outright
2) the only real condition skill you need is Enfeebling Blood, and maybe Weaken Armor
3) many mobs in the game are immune to generic conditions like burning, poison, etc limiting your options
4) the amount of skills you need to bring, and the time you spend on using them, are not worth the effort (see reason 1)
5) And of course, some other class (Necros and Ele's) will still outdo the Mesmer using a variation of the same build

Really, it's no secret about what your build probably is. But, if you could post it here for us to see, we can give you a more in depth discussion about why it would still be considered inferior. I mean why not, it's probably very similar to the ones everybody runs.

Phineas · Feb 25, 2010, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

Thank you for trying to involve the community, ArenaNet. As you can see, the thread has devolved into arguments that have nothing to do with the OP. I guess you will have to implement the changes and wait for the screaming to get any meaningful input.

I would agree with you except for the fact that no ANet-body has been back into the thread to contribute with anything that might lead to further discussion based on earlier critique.

Giga_Gaia · Feb 25, 2010, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

I would agree with you except for the fact that no ANet-body has been back into the thread to contribute with anything that might lead to further discussion based on earlier critique.

Of course they don't give a shit. They're just going to push the update to go live regardless of what feedback they get. Just look at the January update. People raised concerns over Crip Shot, SF/AR and Blinding Surge/EDA, but got nothing. A good indication of future updates to come, I suppose.

Xenomortis · Feb 25, 2010, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

My concern is that an extra 10 sec of recharge is going to end up meaning some extra time spent allowing the monsters to march forward because you can't recast SoS immediately when the previous set of spirits falls. Or do you think the spirits can survive a whole 30 sec?

Yes.
If spirits die, then the rit has a problem at that quest. If the rit can use Summon Spirits effectively, then they can stall the mobs long enough for the rest of the team to arrive.

Chocobo1 · Feb 25, 2010, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

Thank you for trying to involve the community, ArenaNet. As you can see, the thread has devolved into arguments that have nothing to do with the OP. I guess you will have to implement the changes and wait for the screaming to get any meaningful input.

Its the same old Mesmer sucks in PvE stuff, if it didn't happen in this thread it would happen in another.

I do think the mods needs to stop this though, this thread has been derailed hard.

Lanier · Feb 25, 2010, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

e: i don't know how to explicit it enough, but we KNOW that mesmers are NOT about the damage.
the problem is that they are not about anything right now.

I thought we had already established that mesmers do have strengths, just that those strengths are useless in PvE.

maxxfury · Feb 25, 2010, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orry

I think you see the balance problem.

Hint:It isn't that disruption isn't powerful enough.

Or that damage output is too powerful for disruption to matter.

Lower damage, give disruption a chance to matter...as it stands no matter what you do to disruption it will never really be worth it (unless its SUPER overpowered) compared to killing stuff, cos stuff dies just too fast...powercreep..

Trinity Fire Angel · Feb 25, 2010, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Let's nerf sabway and discordway to give mesmers a chance! lol

seriously, with permaform tanks gone maybe we might get a bit more of a less overpowered pve meta. After that, we need to nerf OP pve skills and consumables. Anet mentioned they want to give a clear message of what is acceptable and what is not... I think any build with the name "speed clear" in it should be nerfed hard.